Inspire & Innovate: A Podcast for Educators

Sometimes you read a book or watch a movie that is so chock-full of hyperbole you just roll your eyes and lean into it for entertainment value.  Sometimes that very same book or movie magically transforms before your very eyes into the truest representation of life you have ever seen. Roald Dahl’s (1988) novel, Matilda did that, with its captivating story about a young girl who encounters injustice with adults in her life at home and school with bravery, intelligence, and creativity.  And in our household anyway, the latest iteration of Matilda in musical form directed by Matthew Warchus (from a screenplay written by Dennis Kelly featuring song/lyrics by Tim Minchin) did it again, with a catchy set of musical numbers that had us singing for weeks.  I had the privilege of sitting down with two third graders who love the movie, Elizabeth Bensler and Alianna Rust, as well as their very own Dr. Egger, Head of Lower School to discuss what the musical might teach us about parenting, schooling, and growing up:

 

3:12-6:16: Meet our guests, and learn which one most closely related to the terrifying character of Mrs. Trunchbull!

 

6:51-10:00:  What is up with the dynamic between Matilda and her parents?   

 

10:29-12:45: What St. Andrew’s has in common with the terrifying Cruncham Elementary; (related sidenote: we need a statue of Dr. Egger in the front of the school).

 

13:15-17:10: What all of us think about growing up: from the perspective of sweet Bev Egger, to our third graders, to Dr. Egger and me; the pros/cons of having control but also having responsibility. 

 

17:40-20:48: We have a delightful time comparing Mrs. Trunchbull to Dr. Egger; spoiler alert: they have like nothing in common! 

 

21:10- 25:07: We gush with love for the character Miss Honey, and not just because she’s a nice teacher; because she’s got some solid skills. Also Elizabeth and Alianna dish on which of their teachers most remind them of Miss Honey.  

 

25:45-30:44: We explore the premise of the lyric “sometimes you have to be a little bit naughty”; interestingly sibling relationships come up quite a few times.

 

30:58-33:50- We close out with our favorite scenes from the show, featuring circus-school, throwing hammers, dancing on top of desks, and floating above the clouds. 

As we discovered in the first three episodes of this series, the world of motion pictures depicting educational realities isn’t all bad.  In fact, Mr Rogers, 8th Grade, and Abbott Elementary are so well-done, they strike more chords that resonate than outright clash with our realities. But we are going to end our season with two episodes that take a very different approach.  Hyperbole, absurdity, and “THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN” come to mind.  But even in these films that show less restraint and more –ahem– “artistic license,” we found much to discuss, dare I say even learn?  This week- the at-times problematic but wildly entertaining, School of Rock.  Rachel Scott (LS Tech Integration), Sara Clark (LS Library), and Daniel Roers (our amazing podcast recorder/editor finally steps out from behind-the-scenes) discuss:

 

• 1:18-2:56: The art of substitute teaching, and our first hint that Dewey Finn has absolutely no clue what he is getting into.
• 3:00-5:05:  Daniel takes a trip down memory lane about his first few weeks on north campus, and asserts that there has to be a point that every teacher wishes they could act a bit more like the main character: goofy, fun, sarcastic, relatable . . . 100% themselves.
• 5:07-7:15:  Sure inappropriateness abounds, but Rachel points out that “sometimes it was a little refreshing”; why being honest with our students and avoiding needless sugarcoating can be the best policy. 
• 7:16-9:28: Our guests discuss their fury at public shaming in schools via data walls, behavior charts, names on the board, etc.
• 10:41- 11:27:  How one scene got Sara musing on the challenges of teaching an ungraded co-curricular.
• 12:33-13:07: Why School of Rock is currently trending on TikTok.
• 13:08-14:31:  Inspiring kids to find their passions, but breaking so many rules in the process!
• 14:33-16:18: Why asking youth what makes them mad can be a powerful springboard in the classroom.
• 16:18-16:49: The value of teaching kids to advocate for themselves.
• 16:50-19:15: The scene of a “lesson plan gone wrong” that the guest found oh-so-relatable.
• 19:15-20:37: Admin are people too! That time Dewey goes to the bar with his principal.
• 20:38-26:49: Who knew School of Rock had so much to say on the impact of emotions in classroom spaces?! Also shout outs to Rev. Hailey and Chelsea and our school’s general commitment to all things social-emotional.
• 26:50-28:20: Can you learn everything you need to know through music?: the potential in interest-driven, project-based learning.
• 28:21-end: The guests end with the big disclaimer: unless you want to lose your job, do not take cues from the Jack Black character.  But if you want a great laugh at the end of a long teaching week and are willing to suspend your disbelief, check out School of Rock.

It’s a beautiful day in the neighborhood for Kim Sewell (PK4), Andrea Stallings (ECC Instructional Assistant), and Ruth Fletcher (Little Chapel) to delve deep with their educator and Momma hats into all things Mr. Rogers.  In their honest conversation, it becomes clear that the recent resurgence of interest around the show and man behind Mr. Rogers Neighborhood reflects some deep societal needs for connection, pausing, and emotional exploration.  Enjoy! 

 

2:35-4:13:  Ruth and Andrea discuss two very different vantage points on the impact of television on the lives of young children; should we be hopeful about its ability to foster play and creativity, or should we be concerned about its impact? 

 

4:14-5:50:  What provoked Mr. Rogers to utilize TV as a medium, and a peek into Kim’s evolution as a parent. 

 

5:55- 7:00:  The shows our guests’ children enjoyed when they were young, and their own personal early childhood relationship with Mr. Rogers Neighborhood growing up.

 

7:01-8:06: Why watching paint dry can be entertaining: the power of meditative television.

 

8:23-10:24: The “other type” of children’s show, and what chaotic or subversive television reveals about the intersection of consumerism and the world of TV, particularly in today’s streaming environment.

 

10:25-12:45: Wisdom for current parents of littles: watch what they watch, and turn on your “icky” meter.

 

12:46-13:47: How our guests feel that adult cartoons and marvel movies have impacted young people.  

 

13:48-16:09: On the other hand, the good old days weren’t so perfect: reflections on Bugs Bunny and nursery rhymes and the importance of differentiating reality and imagination for youth.

 

16:13-17:50: What imagination as a coping mechanism looks like in a PK4 classroom.

 

17:51-20:42: Why the first thing Ruth’s 1st-4th graders are asked to do when they enter the classroom gives us hope that slower, more deliberate programming can still entertain children; also, Bluey might be the new Mr. Rogers.

 

20:45-23:25: Tools we can practice as parents of young children after a busy day to help us “live much fuller lives”; “I think that’s the whole point: we all need to slow down.”   

 

Raise your hand if you want to go back to middle school.  Anyone? Anyone? (Why is it so quiet in here all of a sudden?) If the thought of re-inhabiting your 13 year old skin makes you cringe, you should be warned, Bo Burnham’s portrayal of Kayla’s culminating middle school year in Eighth Grade might very well transport you right back.  But for those of us that work with youth in this age range, Eighth Grade might be the most impactful PD experience out there.  Why? By putting us smack dab in the center of the young protagonist’s hopes, insecurities, successes, and failures, the movie will do more than just elicit sighs of recognition– it may very well help you see all of your students in an entirely new light. Here to talk about the movie and their wonderful, awkward 8th grade selves are Toby Lowe (5th grade math), Hannah Williams-Inman (7th-8th grade Spanish), and Hollie Marjanovic (US Learning Facilitator).  

 

3:55-5:10: How Hannah’s 8th grade year represented a huge identity shift from shy to confident, much like Kayla, the protagonist in the movie.  

 

5:15-7:55:  How Hollie’s 8th grade grade year was fraught with all of the normal awkward things in 8th grade, but also compounded by transferring to a new school and a school-wide tragedy; and the role that safe and kind adults played.  

 

7:59-10:11: Why 8th grade was Toby’s least favorite year, and that strong sense waiting for life to start, trying to find your thing when you don’t yet know quite who you are. 

 

10:15-11:02: Why it can feel like a huge relief for us as faculty to remember how marginal teachers can be in the lives of students, at best “blundering idiots.” 

 

13:27-15:55: How Kayla’s middle school experiences contrast with the reality of our 5th-8th graders at St. Andrew’s; also Hannah drops some wisdom: “All 8th graders want to belong and feel like they don’t.  100% want to be part of something and don’t feel they are part of something yet.”  

 

15:57- 17:55: We zoom a bit more into Kayla, her need to make help videos, and why 8th grade is, as Toby puts it, “such a well observed movie.” 

 

17:56- 19:30: Toby recalls the “ visiting your friend’s huge mansion effect” from his own coming-of-age, and Hannah points out that adolescence is a project of comparison: “Should my life look like I’m having fun in this pool party with friends?” 

 

19:36- 21:48:  We gush about perhaps our favorite 8th grade character in the movie, the oh-so-lovable Gabe.

 

22:55-26:32: The good, bad, and ugly of when Kayla gets a glimpse into high school life, and does this have implications for our 5th-12th grade north campus? 

 

26:38-34:35: We talk the role that technology plays in the movie, our own relationships with devices, researched links to anxiety, and our cell phone policies at school.  

 

34:36-35:30: Reasons we think Kayla’s dad should win best dad ever. 

 

35:31-37:20:  The climactic end of the movie, time capsules, and Kayla seeing the light after a very fraught year of growing up. 

 

37:42-41:11:Toby asks us to muster up our past 8th grade girl perspective: “Is there really all that staring and boy anxiety?!” 

 

41:16-42:20: Why we just want to find every awkward kid and hug them and make them feel better.  Also, we are ALL still Kayla, even those of us in our forties.  

 

44:28-end: Hannah ends the episode with more words of insight: “It feels impossible that someone could look at you with all your mess, frizzy hair, and think that you are easy to love. It seems impossible! But we’ve all been there! And they are so easy to love.” 

 

It’s time to grab a snack and get comfy on the couch.  This season we are looking at the ways that television and movies portray youth and schooling. For those of us on the inside, representations of our profession can often be pretty annoying.  (Take for example, the whole set of “savior” narratives in which the white teacher comes in with their unconventional methods and big heart and changes an entire school culture.)  But today we launch our season with what is perhaps the most entertaining and talked-about and (dare-I-say) possibly even realistic creative contribution to the genre: Abbott Elementary! Of course the best people to talk about it are our every-day south campus folks.  Hosted by first grade teacher Michelle Portera, this episode features perspectives from Taylor Davis (PK3), Anna Frame (4th grade), Meredith Boler (2nd grade), and Sarah Rabke (our awesome newish permanent LS sub).   Whether you are an avid fan of the show or have never even heard of it, you are going to love this episode. 

Want to skip to a particular topic? See below!

• 3:53-4:50; 31:23-31:54:  Why/how you should start watching Abbott Elementary immediately!
• 4:55-6:35: What Anna Frame’s favorite scene has in common with St. Andrew’s very own lost and found.
• 6:28-7:42: Why Meredith Boler loves the format: it’s so relatable.
• 7:46-8:58: How much the character Janine reminds us of our first year teacher selves, that one time Taylor Davis made the mistake of telling parents she was a first year teacher, and the age-old fear of young teachers everywhere: “What if I get to the number 3 and the students haven’t yet complied?!”
• 9:00-10:30: Michelle shares her own raw first-year-teacher-self story.
• 10:35-12:26: Why the substitute episode resonated big time for permanent sub Sarah Rabke, and a helpful reminder to us to include ALL the details in the sub plans. 
• 12:43-14:05:  The group discusses the most resourceful, loving, doesn’t-put-up-with-any-nonsense character: Melissa; also fun fact: if you need any Philly- translations to understand the series, make sure to ask our very own Sara Clark!
• 14:13-15:24: Why the aspiring-principal-turned-sub-turned-teacher Gregory reminds us of Jim in The Office;  and how his “reluctance . . . turns into a really deep passion.”
• 15:45-20:22: Michelle plays a clip from the show and guests shout out all the Ava character love; she simultaneously incorporates all of the cliches of bad administrators, is so edgy and inappropriate, but underneath that there possesses heart, truth, and insight.
• 21:07-23:27: The group explores the character of Barbara, who represents the most old school, veteran, master teachers in our schools.
• 23:28-25:05: In what is my favorite moment of this podcast episode, the group discusses the young, progressive teacher Jacob who may or may not be compared with Anna Frame’s husband, Andy.
• 25:08-26:29: Guests explore the magical Mr. Johnson,  eliciting a shout out to Greg Buyans and building managers everywhere, who do everything and know everything at any given time buoyed by a shocking amount of good humor.
• 26:31-28:15: It takes no stretch to find resonance in the bathroom/water situation episode for our south campus folks; Sarah recalls her first week on the job at SA this year: “Where am I and why is this happening?!
• 28:20-30:06:  Guests predict what is next with Janine and Gregory’s relationship; and they discuss what happens at education conferences, stays at education conferences.
• 30:15-31:23: Lest we leave thinking the show is a perfect representation, guests end with sharing all of the unrealistic moments in the show: lunch breaks together; manicures in the middle of the day?!  Come on, Abbott Elementary. No way.

In this final episode of Season 5, podcasts hosts Toby Lowe, Kim Sewell, Michelle Cooper, Buck Cooper, and Rachel Scott come together to talk across all six episodes on the subject of reframing accountability. They share behind-the-scenes secrets about their episodes, discuss how all of this talk impacted their own relationships with students and colleagues, and surface the best definition of accountability we could come up with by synthesizing the six conversations that preceded this one. Listen to the whole conversation, or skip around to what interests you in the show notes below:

 

2:30-16:15: Our hosts for the season share behind-the-scenes back stories about the process and experience of leading episodes about accountability; plus Kim shares an amazing post-script about how her four year olds became her accountability partners this semester.

 

16:17-17:14: One of our major takeaways from the season, that could indeed be a starting point for cultures of accountability, courtesy of Francis Croft: “We all need to get on the team of let’s assume everyone is doing their best.”

 

17:38-18:53: What a conversation in a middle school division meeting about grading made Toby ponder in relation to structures-control-accountability.  

 

18:54-20:22: Buck explores accountability as holding in tension everyone’s humanity with the fact that there are things we have to do (e.g. produce grades and do recess duty).

 

20:23-23:57: Hosts explore the trust/transparency tension combo that came up in the honor council and administrator episodes, and they articulate the truth that trust is doubly hard with the turnover that is naturally part of schools (admin and faculty, but also students that change grades and teachers every single year!) 

 

24:09-27:20: Stakeholder groups in our school that we wish we had invited or heard more from in this season and why.

 

27:22-28:58: After six episodes, what we can say about accountability for sure: it is best when steeped in relationships and incorporates a circular or bottom-up (rather than solely top-down) feedback loop.

 

28:58-31:32: The question that still persists: what do we do about justice and consequences?

 

31:50-32:59: Hosts share what they are going to take away from this system in terms of next steps: change what you can change, lean into grace, open up communication. 

 

33:18-36:30: Final words from Toby, the initiator of this season’s topic: “What’s next is always work- but it’s a good thing that the work is so delightful.  You should always be pushing yourself, your peers, and your bosses for more accountability.”

No season on accountability could possibly be complete without a conversation on what the word means for administrators.  Hollie Marjanovic sits down with Head of School Kevin Lewis and Cathy Davis, who currently serves as our math lab coordinator but has successfully juggled multiple faculty and admin roles since she began at SA in 1989.  In our conversation, we dive into St. Andrew’s past to get some answers about how we have become who we are today:

 

1:32-5:35: Cathy Davis’ favorite role in her time at St. Andrew’s and what it teaches us about the interplay between administrative work and the work of teaching.

5:41-6:58 : What Kevin meant by “accountability” when he set it as a theme for us all this year: the strong supports we all provide each other as we work in concert.

7:08-8:28 : The question Hollie posed that totally stumped Kevin: WHO is actually considered “administration”? Kevin’s conclusion: “Does it matter as long as we are able to support each other as we work together to accomplish our mission and the goals of our school?”

9:16-11:18: What was the structure of administration like when Cathy Davis first began in 1989?

11:20-16:33: What schools were like before the unceasing onslaught of digital communication.

16:35-18:10: To whom are administrators held accountable? Kevin shares the official structural answer (the board) and then his more pragmatic take: “I’m accountable to all of you [faculty, parents, students, general public].”

17:36-20:39: What that mysterious SLT (Senior Leadership Team) is about and why it exists.

20:44-25:37: We examine whether more circular or bottom-up methods of evaluation and feedback could be powerful mechanisms for administrators to improve their performance.

25:38- 27:32: How does our admin model and ratio of faculty-admin-staff compare to other independent schools? 

27:35-29:43 : Cathy recalls a pivotal turning point in our school’s history and why meeting locations matter.

29:44- 31:45: What has changed in our school’s environment to shift structural, admin, faculty, and student needs?  

31:48-34:11: Hollie, Kevin, and Cathy talk about board meeting minutes and the vital intersection of transparency and trust. 

Are we sick of the word “accountability” yet? Once you get into this fresh conversation facilitated by Buck Cooper and joined by Meriwether Truckner, Margaret Mains, and Blake Ware, you won’t be. They explore a gamut of tensions raised by the notion of faculty accountability, but they keep circling back to the most central of tenants: the need for a foundation of clear expectations.  Skip to what you are interested in using the time stamps below:

• 2:45-3:32: What does accountability mean within the St. Andrew’s community?
• 3:46-4:53: Where, according to Blake Ware, it gets “hairy”: the “reek that comes with wanting to hold others accountable and not maintain the same standards themselves” when we all have different workflows and responsibilities.
• 4:56-8:05 :Why we can’t hold teachers accountable unless there is first a clear articulation of expectations for all the things (recess duty, dealing with parents, number of grades, communication on MySA, and on and on).
• 8:06-11:20:  Why the variety of roles teachers play in the life of the school community makes holding teachers accountable complex; and why a good rationale for the “why” behind an expectation is really key, particularly in relation to stressful times in the rhythm of the school year.
• 11:23-13:22: Why we tend to hold teachers accountable for the wrong things (e.g. did she enter grades in a gradebook) when often the most important aspects of teaching are more difficult to “measure,” such as how you handled a day educating 81 students in-the-moment.
• 13:40-16:38: Trust as autonomy in curricular choices, and why sometimes trust could work in tandem with more structure for faculty at a school like ours; Margaret Mains terrifying-inspiring (?) sink-or-swim-first-year-teaching story: “Teach them how to write; see you in May!”
• 16:39-18:00: When hidden expectations and judgements lurk behind “we trust you; do what you want!” . . . is there a middle ground?
• 18:01- 19:02: Expectations must be paired with a solid rationale lest they be perceived as a hoop to jump through.
• 19:03-23:12: SA’s approach to onboarding new faculty: you were hired for a reason, independent school culture, and our attempts to provide more just-in-time information.
• 23:14-26:12:  The tightrope walk between perceived faculty trust v. accountability and where this needs to be recalibrated
• 27:43-29:43: Blake’s starting point: trust that adults are the adults of the school, and complications of equity that can result when different aspects of the job are held as higher priorities to some than others.
• 29:40- 31:04: How the middle school committee structure that started this year helped define these needed expectations in a tangible way and even out labor in the community. 

This week we get into what is arguably the most fierce-love-laced aspect of this accountability puzzle . . . the role of parents.  What does accountability mean for parents of school-aged children?  We need all the voices we can get in this conversation, so we will hear from Michelle Portera (first grade teacher and momma), Jim Foley (history department chair), Honey May (kindergarten teacher and momma), Rachel Scott (tech integration and mom), and Frances Croft (SAPA master, mom, and many other things).  See segments below:

1:23-3:34: Practical tips from Dr. Foley about what teachers need parents to know about how best to support their children in their schoolwork at home.

3:35-5:30: How teachers can have tough, honest conversations with parents by emphasizing the “why” behind their recommendations.

5:34-6:59: Why the accountability that parents help instill in children today will pay dividends in their future lives in college and beyond.

7:00-9:19 : What lunch clips have to do with fostering accountability (remember that book and then poster that was popular in the 90’s: “All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten?”)

8:48-9:30:  Accountability as a two way street.

10:04-11:01: The three layers for youth developing their own sense of responsibility: from self accountability to parent accountability to teacher accountability.

12:00-15:00 : Straight-up wisdom from Frances Croft: why framing our children’s student roles as “their job,” thus separating it from our job as parents, is essential.  

15:18-18:30: Why kids learn so much more when we refrain from micromanaging and let them productively fail.

18:30-20:22 :Why parenting is not one-size-fits-all enterprise.

20:22 -26:49:  Why part of our role as parents might be to serve as our children’s advocates to help hold school’s accountable to serve our diverse learners, and the phenomenon of youth that hold it together at school but fall apart at home.

26:50-29:52: Why both parent and faculty perspectives can enrich each other, and why grace and open-mindedness is key; let’s all get on team “we are doing our best.”

30:06-37:03: Why Frances believes volunteering as a parent in the school community is worth it; the history of SAPA as “the triangle club”, connecting “child-home-school”; and how the question of “where do you plug in?” has a lot to do with fostering belonging.

 

In this episode, we fix our gaze on the history and heart behind Honor Council, a beautiful manifestation of our commitment to that age-old St. Andrew's honor code (“I will neither lie, nor cheat, nor steal”) and a concrete way that we empower students to hold students accountable.  We are joined by advisor (and past student member of Honor Council), Marty Kelly, along with senior honor council member, Anthony Jones:

1:35-2:24: What accountability has to do with honor . . . even when nobody is watching.

3:07-4:28: The history of the Honor Council, and why it honor is at its core.

4:41-5:12; 13:37-15:10: How Honor Council has evolved, and why it has to continue to adapt with the time. 

5:578:54: Nuts and bolts of how the Honor Council functions.

9:48-10:56:  The pros and cons of being held accountable by your own peers.

11:33- 13:11: The role of empathy when you are going on the preponderance of evidence; walking the line between being “grace filled and affirming the values of the community.”

15:35-19:24: What kind of infractions get you on honor council, why the most common type of case has increased since covid, and “calling in” versus “calling out.”

19:47-20:44:  Why keeping an open mind is crucial for Honor Council matters.

20:59:21:48:  Why advising Honor Council is the hardest part of Mrs. Kelly’s job.

In this week’s podcast, hosts Toby Lowe, Kim Sewell, and Julie Rust speak with Anne Avery Boling (senior) and Tanner Purnell (fifth grader) about student accountability.  From losing pencils to bullying to due dates on assignments . . there is a lot that can go wrong for youth in school settings. So how can we help each other work toward the best versions of ourselves?  See show notes below:

6:07-8:10: What does accountability have to do with responsibility? 

9:00-15:00: Our guests say the honor code and talk about its implications in relation to this theme of accountability.

15:03- 15:52: Tanner talks about the woes of losing pencils, and what ordering a whole bunch of extra ones from amazon has to do with accountability.

15:53-17:28: What role do students have in holding other students accountable?

17:32-19:30: We explore scenarios that demonstrate that making the right and honorable choice isn’t always as clear a path as we assume.

19:35-25:54: Students wrestle with what to do when someone misbehaves in the classroom and the teacher demands that someone speak up about who did it. . . and why it is far more preferable in these situations to speak directly to your friends, rather than the authority figure. 

26:23-32:15: What about due dates, late assignments, etc?

33:00-34:42:  Anne Avery’s advice to teachers/students as a key to success toward accountability and really all things: communication

34:58-36:48: Tanner’s piece of advice to faculty: publicly holding students accountable to know something can actually be painfully embarrassing in such a classroom setting. 

This season: “Reframing Accountability,” and if you’re wondering why we chose such a scary framing topic, look no further than our first episode: “Why is Accountability Such a Dirty Word?” In this episode, Toby Lowe, Rachel Scott, Michelle Portera, Kim Sewell, Julie Rust, and Buck Cooper engage in an honest conversation about our love-hate relationship with the word.  The entire episode is worth a listen, but if you only have a few minutes and want to hop to a particular topic, check out our show notes below:

1:02-2:04: Toby, the idea man for this theme of accountability, shares why he wanted to frame up this season with such a baggage-fraught word.

4:12-5:38: Hear Michelle Portera unpack why the word “accountability” can induce eye rolls. 

5:39-6:04: Why the word can make Rachel Scott cringe, particularly when it is issued forth by someone you don’t know.

6:05-12:45: How the “accountability movement” in schools has tainted the word. Hosts discuss how ”it sounded beautiful, but felt terrible . . . reduc[ing] your work [with youth] to a number on a spreadsheet.”

14:38-16:16: Reframing accountability as SELF-driven, not OTHER-driven.

16:15-17:28: Why accountability can only take root in community to grow into something good, and the problem with checklists. 

17:29-19:49: Buck breaks down the word and discusses why “accountability in its best sense is about relationship being forged through explanation or dialogue.”

19:50-22:08: What Julie’s group text with old professor buddies has to do with accountability.

22:08-22:35: Why what happens when you do make a mistake matters.

23:34-26:00: Can accountability survive hierarchy, and relatedly, how can I be vulnerable to someone who can decide I don’t get to work here anymore?

26:27-28:33: Why is it so easy for us as adults to hold children accountable but so difficult to be held accountable?  What falls apart as we grow older? 

28:40- 31:00 Julie’s pet peeve and what to do with folks that don’t seem to have that internal drive.

31:45-34:32: The difference between accountability and justice, and a friendly reminder that “some people want to make the world burn.”  Also, just because you think someone is slacking doesn’t mean you know the full story.