Inspire & Innovate: A Podcast for Educators

In this final episode of Season 5, podcasts hosts Toby Lowe, Kim Sewell, Michelle Cooper, Buck Cooper, and Rachel Scott come together to talk across all six episodes on the subject of reframing accountability. They share behind-the-scenes secrets about their episodes, discuss how all of this talk impacted their own relationships with students and colleagues, and surface the best definition of accountability we could come up with by synthesizing the six conversations that preceded this one. Listen to the whole conversation, or skip around to what interests you in the show notes below:

 

2:30-16:15: Our hosts for the season share behind-the-scenes back stories about the process and experience of leading episodes about accountability; plus Kim shares an amazing post-script about how her four year olds became her accountability partners this semester.

 

16:17-17:14: One of our major takeaways from the season, that could indeed be a starting point for cultures of accountability, courtesy of Francis Croft: “We all need to get on the team of let’s assume everyone is doing their best.”

 

17:38-18:53: What a conversation in a middle school division meeting about grading made Toby ponder in relation to structures-control-accountability.  

 

18:54-20:22: Buck explores accountability as holding in tension everyone’s humanity with the fact that there are things we have to do (e.g. produce grades and do recess duty).

 

20:23-23:57: Hosts explore the trust/transparency tension combo that came up in the honor council and administrator episodes, and they articulate the truth that trust is doubly hard with the turnover that is naturally part of schools (admin and faculty, but also students that change grades and teachers every single year!) 

 

24:09-27:20: Stakeholder groups in our school that we wish we had invited or heard more from in this season and why.

 

27:22-28:58: After six episodes, what we can say about accountability for sure: it is best when steeped in relationships and incorporates a circular or bottom-up (rather than solely top-down) feedback loop.

 

28:58-31:32: The question that still persists: what do we do about justice and consequences?

 

31:50-32:59: Hosts share what they are going to take away from this system in terms of next steps: change what you can change, lean into grace, open up communication. 

 

33:18-36:30: Final words from Toby, the initiator of this season’s topic: “What’s next is always work- but it’s a good thing that the work is so delightful.  You should always be pushing yourself, your peers, and your bosses for more accountability.”

No season on accountability could possibly be complete without a conversation on what the word means for administrators.  Hollie Marjanovic sits down with Head of School Kevin Lewis and Cathy Davis, who currently serves as our math lab coordinator but has successfully juggled multiple faculty and admin roles since she began at SA in 1989.  In our conversation, we dive into St. Andrew’s past to get some answers about how we have become who we are today:

 

1:32-5:35: Cathy Davis’ favorite role in her time at St. Andrew’s and what it teaches us about the interplay between administrative work and the work of teaching.

5:41-6:58 : What Kevin meant by “accountability” when he set it as a theme for us all this year: the strong supports we all provide each other as we work in concert.

7:08-8:28 : The question Hollie posed that totally stumped Kevin: WHO is actually considered “administration”? Kevin’s conclusion: “Does it matter as long as we are able to support each other as we work together to accomplish our mission and the goals of our school?”

9:16-11:18: What was the structure of administration like when Cathy Davis first began in 1989?

11:20-16:33: What schools were like before the unceasing onslaught of digital communication.

16:35-18:10: To whom are administrators held accountable? Kevin shares the official structural answer (the board) and then his more pragmatic take: “I’m accountable to all of you [faculty, parents, students, general public].”

17:36-20:39: What that mysterious SLT (Senior Leadership Team) is about and why it exists.

20:44-25:37: We examine whether more circular or bottom-up methods of evaluation and feedback could be powerful mechanisms for administrators to improve their performance.

25:38- 27:32: How does our admin model and ratio of faculty-admin-staff compare to other independent schools? 

27:35-29:43 : Cathy recalls a pivotal turning point in our school’s history and why meeting locations matter.

29:44- 31:45: What has changed in our school’s environment to shift structural, admin, faculty, and student needs?  

31:48-34:11: Hollie, Kevin, and Cathy talk about board meeting minutes and the vital intersection of transparency and trust. 

Are we sick of the word “accountability” yet? Once you get into this fresh conversation facilitated by Buck Cooper and joined by Meriwether Truckner, Margaret Mains, and Blake Ware, you won’t be. They explore a gamut of tensions raised by the notion of faculty accountability, but they keep circling back to the most central of tenants: the need for a foundation of clear expectations.  Skip to what you are interested in using the time stamps below:

• 2:45-3:32: What does accountability mean within the St. Andrew’s community?
• 3:46-4:53: Where, according to Blake Ware, it gets “hairy”: the “reek that comes with wanting to hold others accountable and not maintain the same standards themselves” when we all have different workflows and responsibilities.
• 4:56-8:05 :Why we can’t hold teachers accountable unless there is first a clear articulation of expectations for all the things (recess duty, dealing with parents, number of grades, communication on MySA, and on and on).
• 8:06-11:20:  Why the variety of roles teachers play in the life of the school community makes holding teachers accountable complex; and why a good rationale for the “why” behind an expectation is really key, particularly in relation to stressful times in the rhythm of the school year.
• 11:23-13:22: Why we tend to hold teachers accountable for the wrong things (e.g. did she enter grades in a gradebook) when often the most important aspects of teaching are more difficult to “measure,” such as how you handled a day educating 81 students in-the-moment.
• 13:40-16:38: Trust as autonomy in curricular choices, and why sometimes trust could work in tandem with more structure for faculty at a school like ours; Margaret Mains terrifying-inspiring (?) sink-or-swim-first-year-teaching story: “Teach them how to write; see you in May!”
• 16:39-18:00: When hidden expectations and judgements lurk behind “we trust you; do what you want!” . . . is there a middle ground?
• 18:01- 19:02: Expectations must be paired with a solid rationale lest they be perceived as a hoop to jump through.
• 19:03-23:12: SA’s approach to onboarding new faculty: you were hired for a reason, independent school culture, and our attempts to provide more just-in-time information.
• 23:14-26:12:  The tightrope walk between perceived faculty trust v. accountability and where this needs to be recalibrated
• 27:43-29:43: Blake’s starting point: trust that adults are the adults of the school, and complications of equity that can result when different aspects of the job are held as higher priorities to some than others.
• 29:40- 31:04: How the middle school committee structure that started this year helped define these needed expectations in a tangible way and even out labor in the community. 

This week we get into what is arguably the most fierce-love-laced aspect of this accountability puzzle . . . the role of parents.  What does accountability mean for parents of school-aged children?  We need all the voices we can get in this conversation, so we will hear from Michelle Portera (first grade teacher and momma), Jim Foley (history department chair), Honey May (kindergarten teacher and momma), Rachel Scott (tech integration and mom), and Frances Croft (SAPA master, mom, and many other things).  See segments below:

1:23-3:34: Practical tips from Dr. Foley about what teachers need parents to know about how best to support their children in their schoolwork at home.

3:35-5:30: How teachers can have tough, honest conversations with parents by emphasizing the “why” behind their recommendations.

5:34-6:59: Why the accountability that parents help instill in children today will pay dividends in their future lives in college and beyond.

7:00-9:19 : What lunch clips have to do with fostering accountability (remember that book and then poster that was popular in the 90’s: “All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten?”)

8:48-9:30:  Accountability as a two way street.

10:04-11:01: The three layers for youth developing their own sense of responsibility: from self accountability to parent accountability to teacher accountability.

12:00-15:00 : Straight-up wisdom from Frances Croft: why framing our children’s student roles as “their job,” thus separating it from our job as parents, is essential.  

15:18-18:30: Why kids learn so much more when we refrain from micromanaging and let them productively fail.

18:30-20:22 :Why parenting is not one-size-fits-all enterprise.

20:22 -26:49:  Why part of our role as parents might be to serve as our children’s advocates to help hold school’s accountable to serve our diverse learners, and the phenomenon of youth that hold it together at school but fall apart at home.

26:50-29:52: Why both parent and faculty perspectives can enrich each other, and why grace and open-mindedness is key; let’s all get on team “we are doing our best.”

30:06-37:03: Why Frances believes volunteering as a parent in the school community is worth it; the history of SAPA as “the triangle club”, connecting “child-home-school”; and how the question of “where do you plug in?” has a lot to do with fostering belonging.

 

In this episode, we fix our gaze on the history and heart behind Honor Council, a beautiful manifestation of our commitment to that age-old St. Andrew's honor code (“I will neither lie, nor cheat, nor steal”) and a concrete way that we empower students to hold students accountable.  We are joined by advisor (and past student member of Honor Council), Marty Kelly, along with senior honor council member, Anthony Jones:

1:35-2:24: What accountability has to do with honor . . . even when nobody is watching.

3:07-4:28: The history of the Honor Council, and why it honor is at its core.

4:41-5:12; 13:37-15:10: How Honor Council has evolved, and why it has to continue to adapt with the time. 

5:578:54: Nuts and bolts of how the Honor Council functions.

9:48-10:56:  The pros and cons of being held accountable by your own peers.

11:33- 13:11: The role of empathy when you are going on the preponderance of evidence; walking the line between being “grace filled and affirming the values of the community.”

15:35-19:24: What kind of infractions get you on honor council, why the most common type of case has increased since covid, and “calling in” versus “calling out.”

19:47-20:44:  Why keeping an open mind is crucial for Honor Council matters.

20:59:21:48:  Why advising Honor Council is the hardest part of Mrs. Kelly’s job.

In this week’s podcast, hosts Toby Lowe, Kim Sewell, and Julie Rust speak with Anne Avery Boling (senior) and Tanner Purnell (fifth grader) about student accountability.  From losing pencils to bullying to due dates on assignments . . there is a lot that can go wrong for youth in school settings. So how can we help each other work toward the best versions of ourselves?  See show notes below:

6:07-8:10: What does accountability have to do with responsibility? 

9:00-15:00: Our guests say the honor code and talk about its implications in relation to this theme of accountability.

15:03- 15:52: Tanner talks about the woes of losing pencils, and what ordering a whole bunch of extra ones from amazon has to do with accountability.

15:53-17:28: What role do students have in holding other students accountable?

17:32-19:30: We explore scenarios that demonstrate that making the right and honorable choice isn’t always as clear a path as we assume.

19:35-25:54: Students wrestle with what to do when someone misbehaves in the classroom and the teacher demands that someone speak up about who did it. . . and why it is far more preferable in these situations to speak directly to your friends, rather than the authority figure. 

26:23-32:15: What about due dates, late assignments, etc?

33:00-34:42:  Anne Avery’s advice to teachers/students as a key to success toward accountability and really all things: communication

34:58-36:48: Tanner’s piece of advice to faculty: publicly holding students accountable to know something can actually be painfully embarrassing in such a classroom setting. 

This season: “Reframing Accountability,” and if you’re wondering why we chose such a scary framing topic, look no further than our first episode: “Why is Accountability Such a Dirty Word?” In this episode, Toby Lowe, Rachel Scott, Michelle Portera, Kim Sewell, Julie Rust, and Buck Cooper engage in an honest conversation about our love-hate relationship with the word.  The entire episode is worth a listen, but if you only have a few minutes and want to hop to a particular topic, check out our show notes below:

1:02-2:04: Toby, the idea man for this theme of accountability, shares why he wanted to frame up this season with such a baggage-fraught word.

4:12-5:38: Hear Michelle Portera unpack why the word “accountability” can induce eye rolls. 

5:39-6:04: Why the word can make Rachel Scott cringe, particularly when it is issued forth by someone you don’t know.

6:05-12:45: How the “accountability movement” in schools has tainted the word. Hosts discuss how ”it sounded beautiful, but felt terrible . . . reduc[ing] your work [with youth] to a number on a spreadsheet.”

14:38-16:16: Reframing accountability as SELF-driven, not OTHER-driven.

16:15-17:28: Why accountability can only take root in community to grow into something good, and the problem with checklists. 

17:29-19:49: Buck breaks down the word and discusses why “accountability in its best sense is about relationship being forged through explanation or dialogue.”

19:50-22:08: What Julie’s group text with old professor buddies has to do with accountability.

22:08-22:35: Why what happens when you do make a mistake matters.

23:34-26:00: Can accountability survive hierarchy, and relatedly, how can I be vulnerable to someone who can decide I don’t get to work here anymore?

26:27-28:33: Why is it so easy for us as adults to hold children accountable but so difficult to be held accountable?  What falls apart as we grow older? 

28:40- 31:00 Julie’s pet peeve and what to do with folks that don’t seem to have that internal drive.

31:45-34:32: The difference between accountability and justice, and a friendly reminder that “some people want to make the world burn.”  Also, just because you think someone is slacking doesn’t mean you know the full story. 

This week’s grand finale of our season of “Bridging the Faculty/Admin Divide” brings together seventh grade English teacher (and host) Dean Julius to discuss disciplinary systems with Dean of Students, Jen Whitt, and Head of Middle School, Clay Elliot.

 

Skip to what you are most interested in below: 

 

4:07-5:25: Why a good discipline system should be based on the mission of the school, which in our case involves “respecting the dignity of every human,” and why detentions might not be the best way to get there. 

 

5:26-6:32: How restorative justice foregrounds education, why no school can purely enact this model, and the usefulness of a graduated ladder of consequences that everyone understands.

 

7:15-8:45: A quick definition of restorative justice, and why it is key to find ways for offenders to re-enter the community having learned from the experience.

 

8:48-10:00: How this looks in practice for us at St. Andrew’s.

 

10:01-12:05: Jen shares what she has observed to be the most challenging part of this process and shares why being an upstander is a key piece of the method as well. 

13:07-17:37: The complex interplay of teacher life reality with these restorative approaches, and why Clay says that it can take 5-10 years to really make a school culture shift in this direction. 

 

17:38-20:58: How these methods fit our often-conservative context of the deep south, a surprising truth about Dean Whitt’s childhood, and the recognition that “it’s messy and it takes time and everyone will eventually get there, but when you’re in the moment, it takes a leap of faith to know that it is going to be okay in a few years.”

 

21:00-23:45 : Conversations about the need for conversation; the power of circles in restorative justice.

 

23:47-25:47: Clay reminds us: “[This form of discipline] is hard and tiring, but empathy is hard.”

 

25:47-29:00: Dean asks for more conclusive data about the way these approaches more fairly treat traditionally disenfranchised groups, and Clay shares some research on outcomes in perceived wellbeing. 

 

29:05-30:18- Jen shares a concrete example of how this all plays out in dress code violations.

 

30:25-31:38: Why no single system for discipline can fix inequity.

 

31:40-34:52 - Is there a place for the “teacher voice” and resulting student shame in these approaches? 

 

34:53-35:50: Why Jen likes the word “accountability” more than shame. 

 

36:09-37:25: A surprising truth about the greatest disparity in detention-assignments.

So many of the issues and misunderstandings that arise between faculty and admin result from long histories, things that happened in the past in an institution, habits of interaction, and a lack of adaptability or willingness to change.  Well what if you had a blank slate? A fresh start? All smooth sailing? We are going to have honest conversations with faculty and administrators in our fabulous new division (serving Infants-2’s): Foundations.  What successes and challenges have come  along with all the exciting newness? This episode features three incredibly dedicated humans:  Dr. Sheena White, Head of Foundations; Tabitha Gibson, Assistant Director of Foundations and current PK1 teacher, and Brittany Brown, instructional assistant for older 2’s and parent of a PK3. 

 

3:45-6:02:  Learn about Sheena’s career trajectory . . .and why we should all thank Mary McCall for bringing her to St. Andrew’s :).

 

6:32-8:19 : Learn about Tabitha’s past experiences, and how she came to be connected with Sheena.

 

8:20-10:30 : Take a time machine with me back to when I first went on a hunt to find a daycare facility for a six month old Alianna Rust, and listen to us philosophize about why there is such a demand for childcare centers that have lovely spaces. 

 

11:02-13:00:  Learn about Brittany’s background, why you should beg her to cook for you, and how she became inspired her to pursue a career in childcare.

 

14:42-16:14:  Why the key to having a better community is building a better team of individuals through great recruitment, and why “willingness to recalibrate” is also essential.

 

16:18-17:16: Why belonging has a lot to do with setting up equitable work conditions, and how the longer hours Foundation’s faculty worked this year took a toll.

 

17:25-19:44 : What it was like for Tabitha entering a new division within an already-established institution after 18 years in a previous establishment,  and how she felt each time someone stopped the baby buggy to see the little ones. 

 

19:45-21:10: Why it was so important to Sheena that Foundations faculty felt part of the entire school, and not just the new division.

 

24:27-25:56: How easy it is for us to exist in divisional silos, and why fellowship is key to bringing us all together.

 

26:12-26:37: Why Brittany’s goal in the next five years is for Foundations to continue to expand.

 

27:08-30:42: Hear Tabitha’s vivid recollection of her interview at St. Andrew’s, the moment she went from feeling anxious to relaxed, and what this might teach us about the essential impact of sharing our stories with each other early and often.

Have you ever wondered what it’s like to teach art to first graders or Spanish to seniors? Ever curious how a head of school spends their day?  In this week’s episode, we share stories and lived realities from three distinct vantage points: Nancy Rivas (Co -Chair of the Department of World and Classical Languages), Jessica Farris (Lower School Art Teacher), and Kevin Lewis (Head of School).

 

4:37-6:12: Why no two days are the same for a head of school.

 

6:26-7:28: Jessica shares a day in the life of teaching art: a mix of predictability and unpredictability.

 

7:25-9:39: Nancy describes a day in her life: punctuated with both structure and flexibility, awash with emails galore, and most joyful when she is actually teaching Spanish: “we’ve planned, we’ve dreamed about it, and we interact with our students.”

 

10:21-14:25: What we all learned from the past few weeks of stormy weather in relation to communication from admin to faculty. 

 

14:25-17:42 : Jessica shares a list she imagines makes up Kevin’s day to run by him, and she is remarkably on target; Kevin shares one of his biggest challenges in this role: “being accessible and available to every individual so I can listen and learn”

 

17:44-18:53: Kevin’s philosophy regarding faculty support: “Stay out of your way as much as possible . . . [and] take admin things off faculty’s plates so you can do the magic you do in the classroom.”

 

19:25-22:07: Real talk about how time consuming communication to students, colleagues, admin is for faculty all day long.

 

22:20-24:02: Why Jessica thinks we could all learn a lot from listening to each other’s daily lived realities, and how co-curricular teachers at lower school recently worked to bridge the gap with classroom teachers there: “We are all so passionate, we are all so invested in care, and our days are full . . .  understanding what is happening helps you be more compassionate/trusting.”

 

24:02-26:02: Why faculty to faculty story sharing could also help perceptions of equity across divisions.

 

26:02-28:00:  How real listening takes “putting the brakes on from ‘I just have to get things done’”; and how listening and slowing down might aid in health and wellness, not just for the individual, but our entire community.

 

28:26-30:30: Why taking an art class might be the key to bridging all the gaps: “You can’t solve a problem without imagination. You can’t have empathy without imagination.” 

 

33:22-34:29:  The value of time, not just chronological time but a “mental space” for creative work to go to fruition. 

 

34:30-38:00: 3 snapshots in time that recently showed Kevin the magic of our community, and why individual interactions with folks helps him relate back to why he does what he does.  

 

39:08-41:55: How that time Shea jumped in to finish carpool so Jessica could work on her lesson plans helped motivate Jessica to do her best for her students and team; and the vital importance of admin leaders showing vulnerability and cognitive flexibility.

We’re back, and we’ve got an incredible, honest episode unpacking what we mean when we talk about providing teacher support featuring two thought-provoking lower school guests: Michelle Portera (first grade teacher) and Shea Egger (lower school head).  Check out the show notes below and enjoy:

2:35-3:26: Listen to Rachel and Michelle gush about Shea’s supportive, positive, caring leadership style  . . . and why sharing vulnerabilities as administrators is KEY in fostering conversations, connections, and growth.

5:18-8:20: Our panel explores why so many teachers are in survival mode . . . and the implications of anxiety, stress, and “functioning below the line.”  

8:50-13:00: Teachers and admin unpack what has led to the burnout both pre and post-pandemic: teachers putting pressure on themselves, scarcity of time, a sense of being piled on, and society’s “ hurry sickness.” (See Shea’s book recommendation here: Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer.)

13:03-14:43: Rachel goes deeper into “time” as a finite resource . .. and provides some ideas for how to streamline in order to work smarter and not harder.

14:45-16:28: Shea explores some concrete strategies administrators should employ to be mindful about time for faculty: making sure any change is purposeful and done with teacher feedback and efficiently using meetings so that admin is making the best use of the time they are taking from faculty.

16:30- 21:30 : What the dreaded “you must submit your lesson plans ahead of time” move can communicate about trust and transparency between faculty and administrators.

22:25-24:23: Hear how one of Michelle’s past admin took on a strengths-oriented approach that made a real difference.

24:23-25:42: Why communication is the key to building trust and relationships . . .both giving feedback and receiving it; and hear about one of Rachel’s WORST admin wielding “lack of communication” as a “power tool.” 

25:43-32:12: Why it’s worth the time for us all (but I’m especially looking at you, admin) to make connections, be in communion/fellowship with faculty, be vulnerable and authentic, own the mistakes you make, and share your values as a leader.  Also the clear reminder: “we all have to play in order to be healthy.”

32:15-34:20:  Self care as a practice that you do, but the equal necessity of systems that support us (e.g. SAPA dinner for faculty families to take home!) 

34:22-35:00: What parents can do to aid in teacher support on their end: ask them what they need! 

35:00-37:35: Back to our main themes: vulnerability, authenticity, trust, and connection. And why there’s “such peace” in bringing your whole self to work. . . which can increase the grace we have for others as well.

This week’s episode in our season of bridging the faculty/admin divide: Greatness.  What do faculty think make a good administrator? What do administrators think make a great faculty member?  And is there a way we can  all miraculously inch that direction together?  I was lucky to be joined by three incredibly great humans to discuss these big questions: Buck Cooper, 8th grade math educator; Cassie Mendrop, Director of Human Resources; and Blake Ware, Head of Upper School.  

5:27-7:15: Blake Ware’s synopsis of what makes a great teacher, which involves “a real commitment to the human side of things.”

7:30-9:27:  Listen to Buck Cooper illustrate the project of school with the best metaphor I’ve ever heard: “What is school except this ongoing cycle of getting the wheels on only to have them come off only to try to put them back on before they leave us as seniors.” 

10:11-11:07: Learn about the employee lifecycle from Cassie.

12:10-14:05 : Hear real talk from Blake about what it’s like to be an admin recruiting faculty in this particular historical moment.

14:20-19:13: All three guests weigh in on creative ways to approach recruitment in our unique school context.

20:30-22:14 : Buck reminisces about an administrator he encountered in his early career that personified the “north star” of what an administrator should be: “ She took me seriously enough to get past the nuts and bolts pieces . . . and engaged me at the level I really wanted to engage: learning how to think about how children think.”

22:18-23:50:  What keeps Blake up at night, and why trustworthiness is perhaps the most central non-negotiable in an administrator.

24:45-25:36: Cassie shares what Kevin Lewis told her in her first interview that made her want to work at St. Andrew’s, and she elucidates the chief challenge of administrating: balancing the needs of so many constituencies.  

26:48-28:18: Blake’s ideas on how we, both faculty and admin, can inch toward greatness: finding things that are energizing and finding ways to do those things together.

28:25-29:55: Buck describes the double-pronged power of curiosity and love in improving community and helping us inch toward a “greater greatness.”

31:20-33:15 : What Cassie has learned from exit interviews about why people leave, and why preserving relationships is at the heart of job satisfaction.